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Thread: Teens convicted for exploiting... themselves

  1. #1
    Junior Member Fang2415 is on a distinguished road
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    Teens convicted for exploiting... themselves

    What: Teenagers taking risque photos of themselves are prosecuted for violating child pornography laws.

    When: Florida state appeals court rules on January 19.

    Outcome: A 2-1 majority upholds conviction on grounds the girl produced a photograph featuring the sexual conduct of a child.

    What happened, according to court documents:
    Combine unsupervised teenagers, digital cameras and e-mail, and, given sufficient time, you'll end up with risque photographs on a computer somewhere.

    There's a problem with that: Technically, those images constitute child pornography. That's what 16-year-old Amber and 17-year-old Jeremy, her boyfriend, both residents of the Tallahassee, Fla., area, learned firsthand. (Court documents include only their initials, A.H. and J.G.W., so we're using these pseudonyms to make this story a little easier to read.)

    On March 25, 2004, Amber and Jeremy took digital photos of themselves naked and engaged in unspecified "sexual behavior." The two sent the photos from a computer at Amber's house to Jeremy's personal e-mail address. Neither teen showed the photographs to anyone else.

    Court records don't say exactly what happened next--perhaps the parents wanted to end the relationship and raised the alarm--but somehow Florida police learned about the photos.

    Amber and Jeremy were arrested. Each was charged with producing, directing or promoting a photograph featuring the sexual conduct of a child. Based on the contents of his e-mail account, Jeremy was charged with an extra count of possession of child pornography.

    Some more background: Under a 1995 ruling in a case called B.B. v. State, the Florida Supreme Court said that a 16-year-old could not be found delinquent for having sex with another 16-year-old.

    "The crux of the state's interest in an adult-minor situation is the prevention of exploitation of the minor by the adult," the majority said at the time. The court ruled that a Florida statute punishing sex between teens was "unconstitutional as applied to this 16-year-old as a basis for a delinquency proceeding."

    The same applies to Amber and Jeremy. Even though he is a year older than her, he is still a minor in Florida.

    In other words, under Florida law, Amber and Jeremy would be legally permitted to engage in carnal relations, but they're criminals if they document it.

    Amber's attorney claimed that the right to privacy protected by the Florida Constitution shielded the teen from prosecution, an argument that a trial judge rejected. Amber pleaded no contest to the charges and was placed on probation, though she reserved her right to appeal her constitutional claim.

    By a 2-1 vote, the appeals court didn't buy it. Judge James Wolf, a former prosecutor, wrote the majority opinion.

    Wolf speculated that Amber and Jeremy could have ended up selling the photos to child pornographers ("one motive for revealing the photos is profit") or showing the images to their friends. He claimed that Amber had neither the "foresight or maturity" to make a reasonable estimation of the risks on her own. And he said that transferring the images from a digital camera to a PC created innumerable problems: "The two computers (can) be hacked."

    Judge Philip Padovano dissented. He wrote that the law "was designed to protect children from abuse by others, but it was used in this case to punish a child for her own mistake. In my view, the application of this criminal statute to the conduct at issue violates the child's right to privacy under Article 1, Section 23 of the Florida Constitution."

    Excerpt from Wolf's majority opinion:
    As previously stated, the reasonable expectation that the material will ultimately be disseminated is by itself a compelling state interest for preventing the production of this material. In addition, the statute was intended to protect minors like appellant and her co-defendant from their own lack of judgment...

    Appellant was simply too young to make an intelligent decision about engaging in sexual conduct and memorializing it. Mere production of these videos or pictures may also result in psychological trauma to the teenagers involved.

    Further, if these pictures are ultimately released, future damage may be done to these minors' careers or personal lives. These children are not mature enough to make rational decisions concerning all the possible negative implications of producing these videos.

    In addition, the two defendants placed the photos on a computer and then, using the Internet, transferred them to another computer. Not only can the two computers be hacked, but by transferring the photos using the Net, the photos may have been and perhaps still are accessible to the provider and/or other individuals. Computers also allow for long-term storage of information which may then be disseminated at some later date. The state has a compelling interest in seeing that material which will have such negative consequences is never produced.

    Excerpt from Padovano's dissent:
    If a minor cannot be criminally prosecuted for having sex with another minor, as the court held in B.B., it follows that a minor cannot be criminally prosecuted for taking a picture of herself having sex with another minor. Although I do not condone the child's conduct in this case, I cannot deny that it is private conduct. Because there is no evidence that the child intended to show the photographs to third parties, they are as private as the act they depict...

    The majority concludes that the child in this case did not have a reasonable expectation that the photographs would remain private. To support this conclusion, the majority speculates about the many ways in which the photographs might have been revealed to others. The e-mail transmission might have been intercepted. The relationship might have ended badly. The boyfriend might have wanted to show the photo to someone else to brag about his sexual conquest. With all due respect, I think these arguments are beside the point. Certainly there are circumstances in which the photos might have been revealed unintentionally to third parties, but that would always be the case.

    That the Internet is easily hacked, as the majority says, is not material. The issue is whether the child intended to keep the photos private, not whether it would be possible for someone to obtain the photos against her will and thereby to invade her privacy. The majority states that the child "placed the photos on a computer and then, using the Internet, transferred them to another computer," as if to suggest that she left them out carelessly for anyone to find. That is not what happened. She sent the photos to her boyfriend at his personal e-mail address, intending to share them only with him.

    The method the child used to transmit the photos to her boyfriend carries some danger of disclosure, but so do others. If the child had taken a printed photograph and placed it in her purse, it might have been disclosed to third parties if her purse had been lost or stolen. If she had mailed it to her boyfriend in an envelope, it might have been revealed if the envelope had been delivered to the wrong address and mistakenly opened. As these examples illustrate, there is always a possibility that something a person intends to keep private will eventually be disclosed to others. But we cannot gauge the reasonableness of a person's expectation of privacy merely by speculating about the many ways in which it might be violated.

    The critical point in this case is that the child intended to keep the photographs private. She did not attempt to exploit anyone or to embarrass anyone. I think her expectation of privacy in the photographs was reasonable. Certainly, an argument could be made that she was foolish to expect that, but the expectation of a 16-year-old cannot be measured by the collective wisdom of appellate judges who have no emotional connection to the event. Perhaps if the child had as much time to reflect on these events, she would have eventually concluded, as the majority did, that there were ways in which these photos might have been unintentionally disclosed. That does not make her expectation of privacy unreasonable.
    Last edited by KPalicz; February 12th, 2007 at 09:06 AM.

  2. #2
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    Who cares if it gets to someone else? It is the artwork of the subjects.
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    Thanks for the post, Fang. And welcome.

    In the future though, when starting a new thread in this forum, please make sure to put your own comments in a separate post and keep the body of your initial post just the content of the article.

    I've edited your post. Here are your personal comments:
    Man, this is so terrific. Someone posted this on Slashdot with the always-good-for-a-doomed-laugh "thinkofthechildren" tag (see what the nerds have to say about it at http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/02/10/1752233 ).

    ----

    Wow. Logic-defying, thy name is age laws.
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    Defender of Youth Odin is infamous around these parts Odin is infamous around these parts Odin's Avatar
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    That's kind of ironic, because those child porn laws perpetuate the idea that it's acceptable for others to harm you in anyway they desire, while harming yourself in anyway what so ever is considered a very punishable offense!
    Last edited by Odin; February 12th, 2007 at 10:36 AM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
    That's kind of ironic, because those child porn laws perpetuate the idea that it's acceptable for others to harm you in anyway they desire, while harming yourself in anyway what so ever is considered a very punishable offense!
    It's the nanny state and political correctness gone wild.
    The greatest threat to America's liberty did not come from somebody who said "Death to all traitors who oppose the King of England," or "We are the Ku Klux Klan and we hate all n*****s," or "Heil Hitler," or "Long live the October Revolution of Vladimir Lenin," or "Allah Akbar! Death to Israel and America!" No, it came from somebody who said "for the children" and "it's for your own good."

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  6. #6
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    The worst part of the case isn't even that they were prosecuted or convicted, it's the justification the majority used.

    The dissent covered most of what was wrong, but I think it should be expanded.

    Basically, it's OK to prosecute them because they could sell the photos. Well, selling the photos would be a crime as is buying and publishing them. No need for a pre-crime here.

    Then it occurred to me, where would he harm be exactly if they waited until they 18 and foresight and maturity attributes in their brains were flipped on?
    The idea I've heard is that child pornography is wrong A.)the "child" in question is too young to understand the consequences and is being coerced in some fashion by the producer/photographer and/or B.)the presence of the images in circulation further hurts the child because there are explicit images of them out there and someone in the future may see the child and recognize them as the subject of the images.

    Now, if a teen takes a picture of themself, shares with no one, with the intent of selling it to a pornographer at 18, who's being harmed? They're 18 now, so the maturity and foresight bits are set to '1', no one took the pictures so no claims of coercion can be claimed. There won't be anymore "victimization by publication" then there would be if the person had taken the photos at 18.
    What's the problem exactly?

    Setting the above aside.

    The idea that they have to account for every variable in a manner NEVER demanded of adults is absurd. Sure, computers can be hacked. Houses can be broken to as well. Does this mean that an adult couple with a sex tape that is stolen during a burglary and published on the internet is "responsible" for what happened? Can they be prosecuted filming without a license or failing to file that disclaimer thing that certifies they were over 18?

    What about a teen who undresses or masturbates in the same room as a webcam? There have been exploits that remotely enabled webcams. Is the teen responsible for production of child pornography because they were in the same room as an internet connected computer with a camera attached to it?
    What if they're in a ground floor room and someone (unknown to them) makes a video through the blinds? Are they responsible because curtains can catch drafts and expose their doings to the persons on the other side of the curtains. What about an 2nd+ floor room with curtains open? Is it their fault if someone uses binoculars to watch them? The same question is for public showers at pools and gyms-is it a teen's fault if someone plants a video camera and watches them?

    Gotta love it, even though their maturity and foresight bits are assumed to be set to '0' and they couldn't know that their pictures were subject to third party unauthorized interception, they must be punished as though that was their intent. They're being prosecuted in the same manner as if they had contracted with a pornographer and been intentionally sending this third party the pictures in exchange for compensation.

    Once again, teens are being held to a higher standard then adults. Teens must be perfect to not suffer some penalty or new restriction. They have to account for variables adults don't have to pay a first thought, much less a second one. This kind of crap is why Florida has its own special tag on fark.com.
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  7. #7
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    This case is retarded. The whole case against them is what COULD have happend and not what happend.

    "The e-mail COULD have been intercepted,"

    "There computer COULD have been hacked,"

    "She COULD have printed it out and put it in her purse, and it COULD have been stolen,"

    So basically someone could go to jail because they COULD have done something.

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    Junior Member Fang2415 is on a distinguished road
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    Thanks for the post, Fang. And welcome.

    In the future though, when starting a new thread in this forum, please make sure to put your own comments in a separate post and keep the body of your initial post just the content of the article.
    Thanks -- I actually have been around before, but I only get around to posting every six months or so. And musta missed the "post comments seperately" bit during my skim of the sticky, heh.

    Anyway, the thing I really love about this one is the "minors taking their clothes off at all is illegal" angle. I have several friends who, by deciding after long periods of consideration, discussion, and soul-searching to lose their virginity at 18 to their 16-year girlfriends, were legally guilty of statutory rape. Hey, lock up the paedos and throw away the key, I say. Unless you add three years to both ages, in which case it's fine.

    This Slashdot post (http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?...0&cid=17966064) sums up pretty well how needlessly destructive this kind of thing can be:

    The damage done to them by the law (branded as sex offenders for life, having to register their whereabouts on a public database, unable to freely choose where they live, work, and be free of harassment, barred from ever adopting or probably even raising their own children if they ever plan to have any) is far more devastating to their lives than if the pictures ever got out.

    Don't think that just because they're minors now that their records will remain sealed. I wouldn't be surprised if there were already sex-crime exceptions to that.

    F2
    Last edited by Fang2415; February 12th, 2007 at 03:46 PM.

  9. #9
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    I can understand how they were convicted for distributing child porn, but not agree with it. Were they also convicted for "sexual abuse of a minor"? THAT I CAN'T UNDERSTAND AT ALL! This reminds me of a similar case two years ago...it's on Galen's site somewhere.
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    Oh shit. I'd better inform someone.
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  11. #11
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    I once wrote a very similar story for a newspaper. It was the April Fool's edition.
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    The government is not allowed to prosecute anybody for a crime against themselves under natural law. That violates the rights to life and liberty. This case has absolutely zero logic or merit to it and is just another "victimless crime" case. I encourage them to protect their liberties from being further violated through retalitory force. The government has illegally initiated force against them and thrown them in jail fraudulently. Now they morally must retaliate and protect their rights. The government must immediately release these political prisioners from jail.

  13. #13
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    The problem is that there not listening to them in the first place.

  14. #14
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    The law was intended to protect them from harm. Who's harming her? Herself?
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  15. #15
    Youth Rights Deity Got Liberty? has a reputation beyond repute Got Liberty? has a reputation beyond repute Got Liberty? has a reputation beyond repute Got Liberty? has a reputation beyond repute Got Liberty? has a reputation beyond repute Got Liberty? has a reputation beyond repute Got Liberty? has a reputation beyond repute Got Liberty? has a reputation beyond repute Got Liberty? has a reputation beyond repute Got Liberty? has a reputation beyond repute Got Liberty? has a reputation beyond repute Got Liberty?'s Avatar
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    Duh.
    Who else?
    Conor Nugent, to boost the American economy, would tax all foreigners living abroad.
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  16. #16
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    I read this as "teens convicted of exploding themselves" and went ohshit suicide bombings!
    Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information and religions destroy spirituality...

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by itisi View Post
    I read this as "teens convicted of exploding themselves" and went ohshit suicide bombings!
    It's hard to get jurisdiction over a successful suicide bomber.
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  18. #18
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    LOL true.

    I guess after this case I can go to jail for masturbating LOL.

  19. #19
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    Sigh...

    One of the biggest regrets I have concerning my childhood was that I never once took any sexually explicit photos of myself. Granted, I wasn't a particulary beautiful child. But still... I'll never be able to tell people that I was a child porn star. This story depresses me.

  20. #20
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    Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information and religions destroy spirituality...

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