Voting Age For How Long?

[Liberationist]

Edited.

[Anduwaithe]

Gack! My eyes!

[SciVille]

Abolishing the voting age altogether seems a little far off. Lowering it seems to be more in the realistic near future, to be honest.:cute:

[M29]

I think that in the short term, lowering it is more likely.

[Liberationist]

Edited.

[XavierAKadafi]

Lowered to 16 in Cali in 4-6 years.. 16 across the nation in 15.

[SciVille]

Even if we can get to work on individual towns and such, it's still a huge step in the right direction. If those who change over are in fact successful even past any snide media, :b:!

[Crazed123]

Humanity's OLDEST members.

[Chiefioso]

Why not lower it to 16, but for those younger who can pass an aptitude test, allow them to vote. There are 15 year olds that are MUCH smarter than some 18 year olds ( I was one of them ) that vote. It all depends on the person. What about that?

[Liberationist]

Edited.

[Yasha]

We have to start somewhere. If it is lowered to 16, or 15, or 14, or 13 in states and localities throughout this nation there will be evidence that youth are as capable and deserving of the right to vote as those who currently have it. You will be in a much better position to argue for those under whatever the age will be once it has been lowered at all.

We are all in favor of increasing the recognition of the rights of youth. We should work together on what can get done now and decide what comes next when we get to it.

[Chiefioso]

I have rarely seen kids who DON'T follow their parents decisions on voting. There is rarely rebellion on the issue, because the kids don't speak for themselves. If they are young, and they wish to vote the same way as their parents, only because their parents voted that way, it would be like double voting. So how would that issue be handled?

[XavierAKadafi]

have you read the NYRA voting age page?

[Liberationist]

Edited.

[Dm84]

I wonder if lowering the voting age to 16 could have unintended consequences. For instance, would we be willing to accept forcing 16-18 year olds to registration for the draft as a condition for the voting age to be lowered? Would we be willing to allow for termination of parental support at age 16? Basically, would we be willing to accept a change as to the definition of who is an adult? I'm for lowering the voting age, but I wonder what kind of political blackmail the government could try pulling in exchange?

[Liberationist]

Edited.

[XavierAKadafi]

Dm84, any parent that denies their children support before they can graduate high school is a worthless piece of shit..

There's no reason the rest should change with it..

Also, our military doesn't want people that young, our bodies aren't developed enough.

[Dm84]

Dm84, any parent that denies their children support before they can graduate high school is a worthless piece of shit..

There's no reason the rest should change with it.. I agree.


Also, our military doesn't want people that young, our bodies aren't developed enough. As far as the government is concerned, our bodies don't stop developing until we're 21, but that never stopped them from drafting 18 year olds.

[Yasha]

Honestly our bodies never stop changing and I see no reason to draw the line at 21. I think the interpretations that lead to singling that out as an average "development" milestone are really skewed with preconcieved notions of an end to growth and significant change once you've reached a certain point.

The military, the current administration, and the vast majority of Americans don't want a draft. The volunteer force is much better than a conscription force and if we need more troops we can afford to increase the size of the volunteer force instead.

As for the side effects of lowering the voting age, that's something I give a lot of thought to on a regular basis. I think it would be helpful to reform contract law with consideration for teens as being at the very least in a better situation with legal contracts than they are now. It would also make sense to support an age of optional independence set at 16 as they have in Canada, where a 16 year old can choose to leave home and support themselves, but cannot be forced out at that age. We need to also strengthen emancipation options for those under 16 who have good reason to want to leave home, and do everything we can to defend the rights of youth who do live at home regardless of their specific age. I'd like to see the Age of Consent laws reformed to reflect not only our intentions to help safeguard teens but also recognizing that teens are going to be sexual whether parents and society like it or not. We obviously need to have education reform as well, where students are treated more as the valued consumers of educational opportunities rather than the undervalued prisoners of an inept and damaging system.

Am I forgetting anything big?

[Liberationist]

Edited.

[ekid2k]

since parents own us doesn't that mean some would think they own our vote if the voting age was lowered?

[Yasha]

What makes you think parents own you? Youth aren't property. Lots of parents may like to think that's the case. But it simply isn't.

[ekid2k]

ya, but sadly they can even have us imprisoned for no reason if they want, and they technichly own everything we own
but my point is, if kids could vote, wouldn't there be some parents who tried to control their kid's voting?

[Yasha]

They can try, but that was also an argument used against given women the vote. I would say any laws lowering the voting age should also include a re-affirmation that a person cannot be coerced to vote in any way, and that if a parent attempts to control the vote of their kid by going into the voting booth and voting for them, it is grounds for emancipation in a court of law. Honestly, I would figure that if a parent coerced or blocked the vote of their teenager it would violate the voting rights act. But if that isn't already explicitly clear then we should be advocating for it to be so.

[Liberationist]

Edited.

[ekid2k]

that was also an argument used against given women the vote.
I wasn't using it as an argument aginst, i just wanna make sure the problem is completely fixed, not just turned into a different problem

and please post that for me, i don't have it myself, cus I have no history book, cus I have no history class

[Liberationist]

I'm a fucking moron who edits all my posts because, oh my God, I'm such a fucking moron. Teeheehee.

[ekid2k]

is it already ratified?

[Liberationist]

Edited.

[ekid2k]

Furthermore they violate International Charters, I believe it is the U.N. Declaration of Human Rights.
you should probably decide what they violate, it could help you, and i'd be willing to send a letter to state representatives if thats what you mean

[XavierAKadafi]

we could use the hell out of it if it does get ratified...

[Liberationist]

Edited.

[ejke47]

since parents own us doesn't that mean some would think they own our vote if the voting age was lowered? :D shut up idiot blank

[katydid]

Don't necromance threads.

Idiot.

[Crazed123]

Don't yell at noobs, it drives them away. Idiot.

[katydid]

If a noob is enough of an idiot to go waltzing through threads from nearly a year ago, and simply throw a comment down that does nothing but insult a regular poster, I don't know if we want them here anyway.

moron. :cute:

[Fabuluke]

Maybe the noob came from another forum where necroing is acceptable, but that guy should've lurked a bit more and he would've seen our opinion on necromancing threads.

[Anduwaithe]

A "noob" spelled backward is a "boon", and should be treated as such. :D

[katydid]

Still...he comes on here and throws a comment down calling one of us an idiot...How would YOU react?

[Anduwaithe]

kathleen: Well, my first impression was that it was perhaps someone ekid knows offline, making fun of his (ekid's) "parents own us" comment.

[katydid]

If that's the case, then my apologies. He still shouldn't have necro'd the thread though.

[Anduwaithe]

Fair enough.

[Balore]

Edited.
Idiot :D

[Fabuluke]

ROFL, Sufferagist...It'd be funny if he was still coming to the forums.

[Demosthenes 337]

I noticed this thread, started reading it, and I was all "the fucker did it again!" then I saw it was a necro thread. rofl. :lol:

[Fabuluke]

Hahaha, I'd get pretty scared if Sufferagist came back. Thank goodness it was a necro, right?

[SciVille]

I still say we should fuck with his Edited posts.:naughty:

[indi1991]

I think 21 should be the age that you are eliglble for military service.

[Dm84]

I think 21 should be the age that you are eliglble for military service.That's a bad move because the whole justification for lowering the voting age to 18 was that the age to enlist was 18. If you raise the enlistment age to 21, you can say bye bye to whatever rights 18 year olds have now.

[indi1991]

There is a bit of a conflict then. Why is the enlistment age 18 and yoounger with permission? A lotta kids are too impressionable at that age. Maybe not smarter kids but how many smart kids are enlisting? Anybody around this forum ready to sign on?

[katydid]

I considered the Air Force for a long time. But it wouldn't have mattered, because I have a 4F exception.

I think a number of people here realize that their talents are better used in places other than the military. Just like I know that I am not suited to working in an office, many people would not be able to handle the military.

I'm personally of the opinion that the military is a good thing, but that more focus should be put on the Special Forces and on advancement of technology. We have moved into an era where war is not what we have encountered in the past, and our military needs to change with the times.

[Fabuluke]

*nods* You're right. I don't think I'd be able to fit into the military either, since I'm an extremely non-structured person that doesn't do well with regimented hierarchies and posturing and ranks. I feel I would do best working in an arts- or writing-centred area or an office in a pinch, but I know the military's not cut out for me. It's not because we aren't mature enough for it!

[Yasha]

There is a bit of a conflict then. Why is the enlistment age 18 and yoounger with permission? A lotta kids are too impressionable at that age. Maybe not smarter kids but how many smart kids are enlisting? Anybody around this forum ready to sign on?

Do you not think people over 21 are impressionable or even stupid as well? Hate to burst your bubble, but older people are a lot less "developed" and "mature" than many like to believe.

[Fabuluke]

*nods* I've known a lot of immature people over twenty-one who don't even have complicated powers of reasoning and lots of teenagers and children who think for themselves and can make informed decisions based on the facts. The question isn't necessarily age, it's reasoning capability and intelligence and willingness to fight for what you believe in.

[Euripus]

Do you not think people over 21 are impressionable or even stupid as well? Hate to burst your bubble, but older people are a lot less "developed" and "mature" than many like to believe.

Ooh Ooh! What he said, what he said!

[clockworkgirl21]

In El Salvador, (excuse my horrible spelling) you can be drafted at 16. This whole draft thing pisses me off. I believe women should have to register as long as men do, but the whole draft thing needs to be done away with.

[katydid]

Yep. :b:

That's pretty much what I think too.

[Dm84]

In El Salvador, (excuse my horrible spelling) you can be drafted at 16. This whole draft thing pisses me off. I believe women should have to register as long as men do, but the whole draft thing needs to be done away with.According to International Law, even if you can be drafted at 16, you can't legally go into combat until you're 18.
I believe women should have to register as long as men do, but the whole draft thing needs to be done away with.There's only 1 country in the world that drafts women: Israel.

[clockworkgirl21]

Yes, I know Israel is the only country that drafts women. But the fact that men are expected to risk their lives and women are not really pisses me off. I believe the draft is slavery and should be illegal, but if one sex has to register, both should. I've been writing to Congress about this since December, and it pisses me off even more that I haven't gotten one reply. Even if you can't be in combat until you're 18, in El Salvador, you can still be drafted at 16. I'm just in a rage now, so I'm going to stop typing...

[clockworkgirl21]

Oh, I also have a question. My ROTC commander said women can't be drafted into combat, but since the equal opportunities movement, (or whatever it was) women can be drafted into non combat positions. I now know this isn't true, but why would he outright LIE?! That pisses me off too.

[Badlands17]

Yeah, I dunno what the hell they're thinking when they say "we're experiencing a major decline in army recruits" and yet they're not even THINKING of recruiting women or gays. The Republicans just won't take an opportunity when it's in front of them.

[Rory]

Yeah, I dunno what the hell they're thinking when they say "we're experiencing a major decline in army recruits" and yet they're not even THINKING of recruiting women or gays. The Republicans just won't take an opportunity when it's in front of them.
They do recruit women, they just don't draft them.

[katydid]

The Democrats were no better than the Republicans - Tended to be slightly worse when it came to the military.

[clockworkgirl21]

I want to know...why won't they draft women? Don't get me wrong, I don't believe they should draft anyone, but for God's sake, Israel is more equal than the US in this case! Same with gays. It they draft one type of people, they should draft every type of people.